2010-01-16 TSC WGM Minutes

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TSC Saturday meeting for 2010 Jan WGM

back to TSC Minutes and Agendas

Saturday January 16th, 2010, 9 am - 5 PM Phoenix, AZ USA

Q1: 9-10:30 AM

  • Roll Call:

Meeting Attendance - :

At Name Affiliation Email Address
x Calvin Beebe HL7 SSD SD cbeebe@mayo.edu
x Woody Beeler HL7 FTSD woody@beelers.com
Q1, Q4 Jane Curry HL7 Tooling, observer
Bob Dolin HL7 Chair BobDolin@gmail.com
Q3, Q4 Marc Koehn invited Guest, HL7 EA IP PM marc.koehn@gpinformatics.com
x Austin Kreisler HL7 DESD austin.j.kreisler@saic.com
x Lynn Laakso (scribe, non-voting) HL7 HQ lynn@hl7.org
x Patrick Loyd HL7 Patrick.loyd@gpinformatics.com
x Ken McCaslin HL7 TSS SD Kenneth.H.McCaslin@QuestDiagnostics.com
x Charlie McCay (chair) HL7 TSC Chair charlie@ramseysystems.co.uk
x Charlie Mead HL7 ArB Ch.mead@booz.com
x Galen Mulrooney HL7 SOA
x Ravi Natarajan HL7 Affiliate Ravi.Natarajan@nhs.net
Ron Parker HL7 ArB Alternate rparker@infoway-inforoute.ca
x John Quinn HL7 CTO jquinn@hl7.org
x Gregg Seppala HL7 SSD SD Alternate gregg.seppala@va.gov
x Helen Stevens HL7 TSS SD Alternate helen.stevens@shaw.ca
x Ed Tripp HL7 DESD Alternate Edward.tripp@estripp.com
x D. Mead Walker HL7 FTSD Alternate dmead@comcast.net
x Ann Wrightson HL7 UK observing
  • Additions to agenda:
  • Roadmap discussion
    • TSC Roadmap Projects
    • Review current Roadmap objectives for the TSC
      • 442: Balloted reference architecture; ArB delivered Architecture Framework, not the architecture. It was not balloted. Precursive step has been undertaken. Another step, is identify the governance, then we can move forward with the actual architecture. Needs description updated.
      • What is the process for communicating to the Roadmap group that the party assigned wishes to modify the objective? No formal process exists. See documentcomments site for feedback on the Roadmap assignment. Need rationale for the Roadmap tasks and reason for changes
      • 408 – should be closed
      • 377; ISO JIC coordination, revisions closed – this is done.
      • 409 Done
      • 414: first steps to identify gaps is to know what we have; our Product definition is towards that first step. John says this is towards an effort we wanted to work on with SCO, but lost champion in Ed as chair of SCO. No active project at this point. Helen notes that this has been done at a national level for UK and Canada; not necessarily effective for universal realm. Mead suggests collating the documents together. Helen agrees but not as a TSC activity, but International Council. Ann notes that TSC might want to know those areas where other standards exist to know where we should not develop efforts. Woody notes the scope is too broad. Need to offer that feedback to Roadmap committee.
      • 415 follows on as next step to 414.
      • 413 HL7 Product Strategy: assigned to Quinn and McCay; adopted to TSC. Product visibility, v2/v3 marketing, product strategy – will review later in the agenda.
    • Roadmap site
    • What is the TSC action plan under each strategic initiative for the next year? 3-5 SMART objectives for each heading...
    • Roadmap task force: need to tell Dave et al and Chuck Jaffe that the communication of the participation of the TSC on the Roadmap committee was not clear. Did not include TSC Chair, ArB representative or Affiliate TSC representative but Affiliate includes chairs. Notify web site team that all members are listed as co-chairs, instead of Jaffe.
      • BOD page now shows public and private groups, and membership. Charlie still seeks to have that information made more public. Need also to allow for SD alternate representation as the Representatives cannot always make the calls. Perhaps need to look at TSC SD as cochairs instead of rep and alternate, just sharing a vote.
    • Brainstorm SMART deliverables for the objectives
      • Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Timed
      • each write down one objective under each (6 minute exercise)
        1. Discussion: WB: carry on. What more can we do? Laundry list of req’s for supporting EHR, PHR, IHE, etc per MW. JC notes should include interoperability or information exchange. Promote SAEAF and link all HL7 product sto that framework. GS: revise HDF to be health develop framework and ballot as JIC project and get all SDOs to follow. CB systematic mean; AK start balloting DCMs in the next year. ET: have a presence, publicize and review global meetings and solicit appropriate representation at each meeting. KM/HS: expand computer based technology non wgm training and info exchange. RN coordinating with similar standard to avoid dup and reduce confusion. GM: lead connectathons to demonstrate implementability and usefulness; increase use of blogs and social media with end-users. CMcCay; establish effective JIC coordination. WB notes that with the HDF suggestion you can’t get anything done within a year but need to identify the first steps.
        2. Discussion #2. Find a proper editor for processable content WB. MW: implementation guide template, documenting process for creating implementation guide. JC Implement tooling to capture requirements from end user interop initiatives. Do customer segmentation description. GS: more thoroughly implement pt 2 of HDF requirements process, getting domain expertise. CB: template repository and CDA implementation guide tooling and support. AK, start implementing SAEAF in at least one DESD project next year. CMead: formalize/define/operationalize arch governance. ET: describe process to reduce DESD project approval time in half by May 2010. KM/JS: collaborate with other SDOs to streamline dev process by leveraging technologies. RN: integrated workflow process. GM: institute modeling and tooling so IGs for V2, V3 and SOA produced from same template. ‘’’Woody asks why V2. GM says NCPDP says they’re working on XML and another format at the same. JC notes a v2-v3 mapping exercise does not add value. V2 to V3 migration still a challenge in many areas. Ann notes we may need to reduce clarity to stimulate ’’’; CMCCay wants online meeting agendas and schedules e.g. social media tools.
        3. Discussion #3. WB: Develop means of creating an example for each specification, static models. MW specific example for producing a v3 template. JC: … GS: develop v2 to v3 maps for domains supported by V2. CB: cross tutorial review teams to improve tutorial content. AK: require IGs as part of all DESD standards projects. CMead: everyone needs to adopt SAEAF, not just the architecture but the framework. Future project approvals must state their saeaf alignment, SAEAF education has to be part of each member’s participation. ET: review implementation experiences as part of each f2f, identify obstacles and approaches how to overcome obstacles. Noted that ICTC might be part of that. KM/HS: v2/v3 migration strategies. AW: making simple standards for simple purposes without large knowledge . RJ: reference implementation. GM: connectathon to demonstrate; provide performance testing criteria and services. Or encourace vendors to do it; NIST for US Realm. Develop business case for that. How to certify whether one is doing V3 “right”. SAEAF conformance assertions might guide this. Look at whether conformance services are available and encourage that development? CMcCay: national initiative implementation collaborative promotion and shared experience. JQ: three-step process – practicalize the HDF for example toolbase methodology one example V3 message and CDA template. Develop class and teach on methodology over x number of sessions with requirement that attendee has modest knowledge of HL7. create workbook on messages and CDA implementations. Galen notes that universities are lacking this in their curricula, CME credits are a start. Continuing education for Computer Science; Helen notes some Health Information Sciences programs are teaching HL7 too. John notes we need to provide materials. Need to provide a textbook. Helen adds: other methods of publishing our standards, eg Kindle, and DITA like IHTSDO.
      • quarter’s time expired: email to Lynn, she’ll compile and send it out, determine if we’re discussing at a conf call etc. When we review next start at #4 or work back from #6?

Q2: 11 AM-12:30 PM

  • (30 mins) Open Issues List
    • Determine/recommend the tools across the organization, TSC Tracker # 323
      Status:Pending creation of project in Electronic Services; unable to identify project facilitator at this time.
      Make a funding request or staff request? Still an issue worthy of effort. Lots of people interested in helping, but no one interested in leading. Helen suggests we put it on a list of priorities for staff/financial help. TSC create list of top 5 and ask for resources. What tools get used within the organization? If some other organization puts forward the effort; needs a sponsor.
    • Review the Role of the Steering Divisions TSC Tracker #749
      Status: Ed and Austin to provide an update at the 2010JanWGM
      Ed reviewed the first part; current role of steering divisions. DESD has been doing more proactive activity with Work Group health than other SDs.
      Austin reviewed the second part; future additional roles of SDs. Ravi asks why there is no emphasis on quality on V2 standards. Woody wasn’t sure if anyone was even working on V2 Datatypes, is that MnM? Tony Julian scheduling InM to discuss a new datatype reports Gregg. Austin notes SSD and DESD can play a larger role, FTSD and T3SD already play a major role. This is part of architectural governance, says Charlie Mead. Helen notes there are areas beyond V3 that could use better quality efforts. V2 has been discussed, EHR is of particular note, needing to come under the umbrella for overall HL7 instead of working in isolation. Calvin notes the common models should be the location of constraint rather than derived from the tooling after the fact. Patrick notes that Clinical Statement has had some, although limited, success. Ann notes that her involvement for CDA R3 and vMR are not basing their work on Clinical Statement. Mead suggests we need a list of where the bubbles overlap. Lists should be maintained within the steering divisions. Austin notes SSD develops things to be used in DESD; DESD should not be developing those models from scratch. If they need ‘new’ things they should work with SSD SD to create the building blocks. Steering divisions need to be able to ‘pop their bubble’ and require them to work with the other groups. CMead notes architectural composites vs architectural primitives; comes back to governance. National initiatives in Canada and Australia both say we need to build at an enterprise level. CMcCay notes this would be a good note for the Monday night meeting. CMead notes that we need to have the business architecture down. Woody notes this is intertwined with volunteering and membership. Goes back to strategic initiative #6.
      These efforts need resources; sponsored voluntolds or other individuals.
      . CMcCay Would like to see product roadmap or document roadmap how do projects within an SD relate to each other and the overall direction of travel.
      Lynn reviewed the origin of the issue from GForge. Helen moves that a requirement for every work group to participate actively (as defined by each SD), and if they do not it automatically puts the WG into red status; the SD has the authority to take action up to and including initiation of dissolution of the WG. Ed seconds – discussion. Woody is sympathetic but the meeting schedule adds to a volunteer schedule and approving projects is not exciting. EVote may be defined as adequate participation. Patrick notes we don’t want to beat up co-chairs even more. Woody notes that you can come to expect participation of certain co chairs but there are others you never hear from. Helen notes that co chairs need to have the expectation to participate. Mead supports, however the TSC should initiate dissolution rather than the SD. Austin notes that he signed up as a member of each WG in his steering division and as such has opportunity to initiate dissolution in any WG. Galen notes that many calls he’s participated in are just ‘does anyone have anything’ and ‘nope’ and the call ends. They get more reports back after the fact rather than discussion in advance of a TSC vote. Patrick notes that yes at least with two cochairs, that one should be able to participate. CMcCay notes meeting minutes are also important; does this indicate it is more important than that? Austin notes he and Ed have a process in place that they find more effective than a club. Helen tables the motion.
      Austin asks if this satisfies the task assignment. Woody would like to see it circulated to the Steering Divisions. Austin just sent it today; do we approve today or review at a future teleconference? Steering Divisions to review on Monday night; approve as draft document for review at future TSC conference call.
    • DCMs - Consistency of Clinical content TSC Tracker # 890
      Status:FAQ review, see email response, or listserv discussing with Patient Care Tues Q1.
    • JIC Project: Harmonised health informatics document registry and glossary, at TSC Tracker # 984
      Status: opened 3/11/2009, Project Insight #495; No PSS has come through project approval by SD or TSC; Woody may have had a project tscope from Sept.
    • TSC Work Group Visibility Project 2009 TSC Tracker # 997
      Status: Work Group organizing documents continue to trickle in; Lynn suggests we close this project and open a TSC annual maintenance project for updates to Mission/Charter, SWOT, DMP. OK
    • TSC Project Visibility Project 2009 TSC Tracker # 998
      Status: Not an approved project; Recommend closure as Project Insight Searchable Database enhancements and 'Projects' section on Work Groups' web pages complete 2009 objectives. Do we want a 2010 Project Visibility effort? Helen would like to see each project have a wiki and linked from their website for the work group. Lynn and Helen to work on PSS for 2010 and close the 2009. Each project should be accessible from the Work Group project list.
    • How projects and work groups manage their relations with other organizations, Project Insight # 1091
      Status: ORC has not met. Are there TSC member opinions on what/how the ORC should operate so Helen has something to take back to the ORC when they meet? Helen last night got the agenda for the Board meeting; ORC has a motion to approve a relationship Helen had not seen with Mohawk College (Ontario CA) providing a reference implementation. CMead reminds that the significant component of the SAEAF around governance including relationships with other organizations, relating to exchange of specifications especially. How two enterprise architecture specifications collaborate, etc. Need to include consideration of SAEAF. CMcCay notes the ArB and ORC need to review that topic. John notes that he’s heard the discussion on the CTeam; they need to talk to Chuck Jaffe and Dennis Giokas. ORC has lunch meeting on Monday. She will raise TSC concern over any relationships having technical content. She also asks the Steering Divisions to note relationships that are not formalized or where the collaboration is outside the bounds of the MOU. Anatomic Pathology meets within IHE but IHE is only supposed to create implementation guides not building standards. Project scope statements should have checklist of arrangements/MOUs, recommends Calvin. Helen says we’ll first recognize the relationships we have. Ken notes the issue to address is the communication within the organization; how did this get on the Board agenda without an ORC member being involved. CMcCay says Helen needs to clarify when an MOU is needed; and identify what triggers the development, e.g. with IP question on shared development.
    • IPR, patents, and copyright issues (TSC Tracker # 1319)
      • Discussion items for 2010JanWGM:
      1. Where do people go to raise questions about IPR/copyright?
      2. Informational item: What are we doing about managing HL7 IP access rights and decoupling from membership rights.
        • Discussions at the board level re; licensing of IP with US Federal Govt. Plans on the table for National licenses also for Canada and the UK. Still in the discussion stage. Woody thinks the TSC needs to have voices at that table; need an established group long term to deal with and answer questions about this stuff. Need to know what the rules are. Ravi agrees there should be a separate team. It took 4 weeks to start testing Static Model Designer due to these kinds of questions. Woody would like to be involved as well as to know there is a group to turn to. John reiterates that we need to talk to Chuck. John to call Chuck to visit the TSC meeting.
    • Board Request: Innovations Committee, Project Insight # 1320
      Status: Innovations Workshop scheduled for Monday Q3/Q4. Video format presentation. TSC needs to be aware of how we relate to innovation. Begs the question what is business-as-usual as compared to innovation. Recommend TSC members attend. Helen notes we need to determine if it’s truly innovative or if it’s disruptive and wishing to go around established patterns. CMead notes that those feeling they’re on the bleeding edge also need to regard semantic interoperability; comes back to governance process. Project scope statements also need to be used.
    • International Council Request: quality considerations if Work Groups not meeting at WGMTSC Tracker # 1321
      Status: Last discussion Oct 7 2009. Benchmark U.S. WGM for effectiveness postmortem. What metrics should be measured? Quality plan on agenda for this afternoon; this is about meeting quality not about product quality. CMcCay notes that the chair of HL7 wants an organizational quality plan of which a product quality plan is a start. Helen notes the board has put together a group to look at international meetings. This may not be a TSC thing. Should be HQ and International Council. Quality of decisions made in Kyoto without adequate representation was called into question per Ann. Helen notes there are work groups that have determined they will not meet at all at international meetings and will operate on a two-meeting per year schedule. A room full of first-time attendees plus a co-chair does not make for effective work; not just at international meetings but any meeting. Calvin notes the WGs publish their meeting minutes with attendance, what are we asking for – some analysis? What is the criteria for an effective meeting, anywhere. WGHealth already reports on if a WG meets at a WGM; so do we determine what an effective quorum is and whether it was met? Ken notes that quorum guidelines are not based on previous experience. Woody notes if everyone is a newbie you might challenge preponderance of influence. Can we ask cochairs after the meeting if they thought in the meeting they had adequate representation and discussion to effectively conduct their business, Helen asks. Mead says we need an example of what bad things happened before we go crazy on this. International council has asked for one international meeting per year; want to know what an effective meeting is. CMcCay notes they did send out a questionnaire and its results will be reviewed this week. Ann notes a decision register by each WG might be useful where she recounted a decision was made but not taken forward because the proper people were not in the room. Galen notes that the questionnaire neglected to ask if they got walk-ins or new attendees. SOA had new folks in Cologne, not many in Kyoto. Charlie and Ravi can bring back any further action to the TSC from the International Council; close this item.
    • HL7 Activities with other SDOs, TSC Tracker # 1337
      Status: Q4 session Sunday, Agenda CMcCay notes that the JIC is reviewing itself as we speak. Don’t know if there will be JIC meetings at future HL7 meetings. Ed is no longer the chair. More like a JWG meeting as we did in Atlanta.
    • Document the process of ArB nomination and confirmation, TSC Tracker # 1340
      Status: Draft presented for review. Passed unanimously.
    • Foster development of product strategy - see Q3
  • (15 mins) Discuss deliverables coming out of Working Group Meeting; dispense with this item.
  • (15 mins) Review TSC Documents
  • (15 mins) Review ISO/CEN/HL7 tracking. Defer to q4 meeting Sunday.

Q3: 1:30-3 PM

Q4: 3:30-5PM

  • HSSP Process Project Results - Galen Mulrooney
  • ArB: Charlie Mead
  • EA IP update - Marc Koehn
  • Tooling: John Quinn
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