Difference between revisions of "2011-09-11 TSC WGM SDO Activities Minutes"

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**Health Story: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6423/8662/HealthStoryLiaisonReportSept2011.doc report] - Joy Kuhl
 
**Health Story: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6423/8662/HealthStoryLiaisonReportSept2011.doc report] - Joy Kuhl
 
**IHTSDO: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6433/8677/2011SeptHL7ActivitieswithIHTSDO.docx report] - Russ Hamm
 
**IHTSDO: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6433/8677/2011SeptHL7ActivitieswithIHTSDO.docx report] - Russ Hamm
**NCPDP: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6422/8661/201109HL7ActivitieswithNCPDP.docx Report] - Sue Thompson
+
**NCPDP: [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6441/8686/201109HL7ActivitieswithNCPDP_Weiker.docx report from Margaret Weiker], and [http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/download/docmanfileversion/6422/8661/201109HL7ActivitieswithNCPDP.docx Report] - Sue Thompson
  
 +
Panel discussion: (1 hour)
 +
* Panelists:
 +
**Keith Boone
 +
**Scott Robertson
 +
**John Quinn
 +
**Tim Buxton
 +
**Christian Hay
 +
**Lisa Spellman
 +
*Perspectives on cross SDO cooperation strategic road map (i.e., what the strategic priorities ought to be)
 +
* Additional opportunities for cross SDO cooperation
 +
* Ideas on how to streamline existing cross SDO activities
 +
 +
Comment period
 +
 +
==Minutes==
 +
 +
Welcome and Introduction - Austin Kreisler
 +
*Austin called the meeting to order at 3:35 PDT.
 +
 +
HL7 Executive Report on Activities with other SDO's
 +
 +
SDO liaison activities and review of each JIC-sponsored event having HL7 engagement (25 mins)
 +
Liaison reports:
 +
*Keith Boone addressed IHE activities. They are working on IG for CDA, HL7 joint activity for consolidation of CDA IGs.  S&I Framework activities for transfer of care are looking at those guides for summary documents needed for transition of care. There are new proposals in Radiology domain, IHE Patient Care coord, public health and research, it infrastructure. Many are being proposed using HL7 standards. Patient Care Coord looking at using Infobutton in one of their proposals. Mead Walker asked how to get involved with the Cardiology IG – Harry Solomon is the person. IT Infrastructure see John Moehrke, Public Health see Alean Kirnak.
 +
*Mead Walker addressed ICSR; balloted in HL7 and went out to ISO FDIS ballot last month. Hoping ot complete ISO balloting shortly.
 +
*Christian addressed GS1 work under JIC with Patient Identification. A midterm report released yesterday,  and just ask him for a copy of the report.
 +
*Ted Klein reported on LOINC that meetings held last month in Salt Lake City and Lab LOINC held with efforts to address MU NPRM Stage 2. Most common Couple of thousand tests and results is a big effort ongoing with LOINC. Work continues along with SNOMED / IHTSDO activities to resurrect TermInfo work to bind terminology models in information models. A new relationship agreement between LOINC and SNOMED CT underway. Ted reports on the ISO TC 215 U.S. TAG meeting last month with AHIMA taking over secretariat from HIMSS. October 18 -21st in Chicago is next meeting. U.S. TAG approved all open ballot comment items. 2012 meetings are still tentative; week prior to HL7 Vancouver meeting is set.
 +
**Keith Boone asks about value set results on LOINC, are these observations/results or orders? Ted notes that the plan is to update the list of observation codes and enhance the list of order codes.
 +
**Ann Wrightson asked about Datatypes. Ted notes that terminology binding ‘surgical removal’ from core principles has recently passed. ISO datatypes 21090 repackage for ISO will have similar terminology bindings repackaged for ISO.
 +
*OMG liaison relationship was discussed by Ken Rubin. 4th annual event held in July 2011. CTS2 R2 joint effort with Vocab and SOA in OMG passed the OMG arch board and is now an OMG standard so will cycle back to HL7 for normative. The HCSPD also has been shepherded into OMG. Letter of intent for adoption closes in two weeks; see Ken if you wish to participate.
 +
*Tim Buxton talks about IDMP going forward
  
 
Panel discussion: (1 hour)
 
Panel discussion: (1 hour)
Line 39: Line 70:
 
* Additional opportunities for cross SDO cooperation
 
* Additional opportunities for cross SDO cooperation
 
* Ideas on how to streamline existing cross SDO activities
 
* Ideas on how to streamline existing cross SDO activities
 +
* Panelists:
 +
**Keith Boone
 +
***Wearing his IHE liaison hat, IHE implements profiles with HL7. Around the World Moehrke observed their affiliate is working along IHE and other SDOs. Much activity on implementation side is going on in the Affiliate Space with countries having national health it initiatives. Communication and cooperation not as robust as it was at level of lab profiles and would like to see more, figure out better ways IHE can engage with WGs when working on profiles. IHE/Cardiology space has great collaboration with many shared participants and would like to see more of that.
 +
**Scott Robertson
 +
***As chair of HL7 Organizational Relations Committee, trying to formalize and publicize the relationships that HL7 already has.  Part of the HL7 ORC strategic plan is how you document these relationships, who these liaisons are, how the membership sees who the liaisons are. Need to know who to go to when you have material related to, say, IHE.
 +
**John Quinn
 +
***Has liaison activities with many organizations, and thanks Ted for gathering information on the most recent ISO US TAG meeting. Other groups include OACIS, who ‘own the space’ between the ambulance and the emergency room.  HL7 recently renewed their MOU with them. OACIS has a similar effort to defining a SOA approach, with their own version of SAIF very similar to ours. We will be looking to harmonize our efforts. US Realm activity SDO Charter Organization or SCO, group of US SDOs, with HL7, NCPDP (ambulatory e-prescribing), CDISC, and X12 (US EDI standards body responsible for HIPAA transactions).
 +
**Tim Buxton
 +
***Formal liaison is only ICH. He’s been engaged in cross-SDO activities since 2007. Duplication of effort between fora  is the main consideration. Problems to be resolved include different relationships between SDOs all having membership in the JIC. Relationships not clearly worked out, the way a project should be set up not clearly worked out. They are still working out efficiencies. Ballot cycles are not the same, though HL7 has accommodated ISO timelines. Publication cycles are also different. Thirdly, same team work in multiple different formats to slightly different ends with input through ballots only, not before ballot. Strategic objectives can remain the same, but better operations and standards recognition between SDOs to be sufficient for passage between SDOs. John Quinn notes that publication standards between the organizations are a problem, they are recognized and their differences noted, but post-process technical difficulties in changing publication methods, and he recommends talking to Lenel James who is working on this in SCO.
 +
**Christian Hay
 +
***Christian describes the efforts of GS1 in the healthcare industry. They have their own processes that are not standardized to the other SDOs. Their purpose in entering JIC is not to make things more complex but to make them simpler. They have Working Groups also working around the globe. One such example of work if you have AIDC auto id data capture, level H is capture of such data. Traceability of supply chain is another important area of activity including electronic product code EPC, with traceability at the item level. Uniform messaging processes are already used for that work, which have applicability to prescription drugs. His task is to raise awareness of what they’re doing, working at the global level, and offering a workshop on GS1. His task also is to explore further the junction points between the organizations.  In Austria: GS1, HL7, local ISO, and IHE are all working together, as with Switzerland. May next year next connectathon for IHE Europe.
 +
**Lisa Spellman
 +
***Secretary of ISO TC 215, Administrator for US TAG. Former role was with IHE. End users are looking for technology that works. Users don’t want to know the details. Each of our organizations has a role to play, and we seek further how can we do partnerships and collaboration. If it was easy, it would have already been done. Each organization has their own reason and way for their work.  She invites those that wish to get involved for TC215 for people to bring expertise in their own areas into TC215. What can we develop that is truly relevant, that would make a difference? Need to examine who our stakeholders are. We want to have both vendors and the clinical side show up and participate.
 +
  
 
Comment period
 
Comment period
 +
*Harry Solomon: Participation in the variety of SDOs across the breadth of SDOs – how can a person pay one fee and get access to participate in all the SDOs? Some other areas have country wide collaboratives that do that, notes Keith Boone but it’s an extraordinary challenge.
 +
*Richard Dixon-Hughes notes that an Australian survey noted that companies were more concerned about cost of involvement and the cost of technical experts rather than membership fees. Cooperation and harmonization at the time JIC was formed was perceived as being critical, where now it seems that it’s not mandatory for survival. Lisa notes that the members should keep pushing to get such things done. Tim notes that it needs to maintain perception as imperative, against increased evaluation of how monies are spent. John notes that SCO is trying to bring some governance into how the SDOs work and make efficient the process of collaboration.  Ed Hammond is recommended to discuss from a reference point to when JIC was formed. This forum addresses shortcuts to the governance issues where countries have programs adopting standards compared in other areas where  SDOs have no official standing. ISO processes without joint balloting create disparity in version releases for adoption.
 +
*EU funded project for Semantic Health Net; how well is this known? How well does it fit? Bernd offers that HL7 Europe are aware of it. John notes that Chuck spent a couple days looking into the latest updates from EPSOS. It’s important that such projects be brought into this venue.  Bernd adds that it is a sustained project over more than a few years.
 +
*Bernd asks about the integration of different bodies in one way, to increase the participation by individuals fourfold by integrating those bodies as is done in Germany. While he is not happy necessarily with the integration but integrating by person is not efficient. This is noted with the SAIF effort that some knowledge has already been developed in other areas.  Keith notes that he quotes Grahame there’s nothing so annoying as my existing solution to your new set of requirements. First effort of a thesis is a scan of existing work that’s been done in that area of research. He sees that step as missing among experts who believe they already know what they’re doing. Christian adds that such rationale depends on the involvement of those that are experts in such an area being ‘in the room’ to know what the state of the research is due to the volume of information. Human resources are the point of concern – the companies involved don’t know each other; it’s a communication issue.
 +
*If the research scan is a part of the thesis approach, so should be a communication plan. Institutional memory documentation is part of the problem when what was done and what was considered in the process. The natural response is the assumption that others did not evaluate areas of one’s own concern. Intra-SDO communication strategy to achieve such a goal, would help to synchronize activity across SDOs to shorten cycle time as well as document for posterity to avoid the re-work. Need to document what went into a decision as well as the decision that was made.  Keith recommended with the CDA IG Ballot that not just the rule go into the ballot but the rationale behind it.
 +
*Richard adds that the role of IHE worldwide is significant to the groups now in the JIC, where the IHE does not purport to be an SDO in its own right and what does that model have to import to HL7. He notes that with his appointment as liaison he did not receive a set of responsibilities or an understanding of what the role entails. More formalized communications would be helpful so that after providing a report at this session he doesn’t get cornered repeatedly through the rest of the week on what is going on.
 +
*John Moehrke notes a problem with the environmental scan is that most SDOs do not make themselves searchable. He can’t tell what HL7 is doing or ISO is doing. He doesn’t know what the titles are of what is available. Lisa notes that it might be a technology problem. Others disagree; that it is a process problem.
 +
 +
Austin notes that there is a list server for this group, please join.
 +
 +
Christian thanks Austin for organizing this new format. He feels the best way to communicate is to be there; the HL7 website is great but searching is difficult. Lisa agrees that the process problem is a way to start addressing the communication and thanks everyone for staying this afternoon to attend the session. Tim notes the problems faced across SDOs are similar across projects in orgs; documentation and communication to stakeholder. Keith adds that RSS feeds are available from HL7 as well as ASTM that he can retweet so that an automatic flow of information can be made available and would offer an uber-feed if ISO were to create one. Scott notes that if you have ideas please bring them to the ORC.
  
 +
Heather Grain notes that SKMT was developed with the ability to do what Keith is discussing as a repository of work in process.
  
<!--
+
Austin thanks the panelists.
==Minutes===
+
Adjourn 5:01 PM.
-->
 

Latest revision as of 17:55, 26 September 2011

TSC Sunday Q4 Agenda - 2011 Sept San Diego, CA USA

back to TSC Minutes and Agendas
to JIC Projects page

to ISO_and_JIC_projects wiki page

TSC HL7 activities with other SDOs Meeting

Location: TBD

Date: 2011-09-11
Time: Sunday Q4
Facilitator Austin Kreisler Note taker(s) Lynn Laakso
Opportunity for HL7 WGM attendees to review activities in collaboration with other SDOs such as IHE, OMG, and the JWG and JIC, and provide comment.
Attendees:

Agenda

Welcome and Introduction - Austin Kreisler

HL7 Executive Report on Activities with other SDO's

SDO liaison activities and review of each JIC-sponsored event having HL7 engagement (25 mins)

Panel discussion: (1 hour)

  • Panelists:
    • Keith Boone
    • Scott Robertson
    • John Quinn
    • Tim Buxton
    • Christian Hay
    • Lisa Spellman
  • Perspectives on cross SDO cooperation strategic road map (i.e., what the strategic priorities ought to be)
  • Additional opportunities for cross SDO cooperation
  • Ideas on how to streamline existing cross SDO activities

Comment period

Minutes

Welcome and Introduction - Austin Kreisler

  • Austin called the meeting to order at 3:35 PDT.

HL7 Executive Report on Activities with other SDO's

SDO liaison activities and review of each JIC-sponsored event having HL7 engagement (25 mins) Liaison reports:

  • Keith Boone addressed IHE activities. They are working on IG for CDA, HL7 joint activity for consolidation of CDA IGs. S&I Framework activities for transfer of care are looking at those guides for summary documents needed for transition of care. There are new proposals in Radiology domain, IHE Patient Care coord, public health and research, it infrastructure. Many are being proposed using HL7 standards. Patient Care Coord looking at using Infobutton in one of their proposals. Mead Walker asked how to get involved with the Cardiology IG – Harry Solomon is the person. IT Infrastructure see John Moehrke, Public Health see Alean Kirnak.
  • Mead Walker addressed ICSR; balloted in HL7 and went out to ISO FDIS ballot last month. Hoping ot complete ISO balloting shortly.
  • Christian addressed GS1 work under JIC with Patient Identification. A midterm report released yesterday, and just ask him for a copy of the report.
  • Ted Klein reported on LOINC that meetings held last month in Salt Lake City and Lab LOINC held with efforts to address MU NPRM Stage 2. Most common Couple of thousand tests and results is a big effort ongoing with LOINC. Work continues along with SNOMED / IHTSDO activities to resurrect TermInfo work to bind terminology models in information models. A new relationship agreement between LOINC and SNOMED CT underway. Ted reports on the ISO TC 215 U.S. TAG meeting last month with AHIMA taking over secretariat from HIMSS. October 18 -21st in Chicago is next meeting. U.S. TAG approved all open ballot comment items. 2012 meetings are still tentative; week prior to HL7 Vancouver meeting is set.
    • Keith Boone asks about value set results on LOINC, are these observations/results or orders? Ted notes that the plan is to update the list of observation codes and enhance the list of order codes.
    • Ann Wrightson asked about Datatypes. Ted notes that terminology binding ‘surgical removal’ from core principles has recently passed. ISO datatypes 21090 repackage for ISO will have similar terminology bindings repackaged for ISO.
  • OMG liaison relationship was discussed by Ken Rubin. 4th annual event held in July 2011. CTS2 R2 joint effort with Vocab and SOA in OMG passed the OMG arch board and is now an OMG standard so will cycle back to HL7 for normative. The HCSPD also has been shepherded into OMG. Letter of intent for adoption closes in two weeks; see Ken if you wish to participate.
  • Tim Buxton talks about IDMP going forward

Panel discussion: (1 hour)

  • Perspectives on cross SDO cooperation strategic road map (i.e., what the strategic priorities ought to be)
  • Additional opportunities for cross SDO cooperation
  • Ideas on how to streamline existing cross SDO activities
  • Panelists:
    • Keith Boone
      • Wearing his IHE liaison hat, IHE implements profiles with HL7. Around the World Moehrke observed their affiliate is working along IHE and other SDOs. Much activity on implementation side is going on in the Affiliate Space with countries having national health it initiatives. Communication and cooperation not as robust as it was at level of lab profiles and would like to see more, figure out better ways IHE can engage with WGs when working on profiles. IHE/Cardiology space has great collaboration with many shared participants and would like to see more of that.
    • Scott Robertson
      • As chair of HL7 Organizational Relations Committee, trying to formalize and publicize the relationships that HL7 already has. Part of the HL7 ORC strategic plan is how you document these relationships, who these liaisons are, how the membership sees who the liaisons are. Need to know who to go to when you have material related to, say, IHE.
    • John Quinn
      • Has liaison activities with many organizations, and thanks Ted for gathering information on the most recent ISO US TAG meeting. Other groups include OACIS, who ‘own the space’ between the ambulance and the emergency room. HL7 recently renewed their MOU with them. OACIS has a similar effort to defining a SOA approach, with their own version of SAIF very similar to ours. We will be looking to harmonize our efforts. US Realm activity SDO Charter Organization or SCO, group of US SDOs, with HL7, NCPDP (ambulatory e-prescribing), CDISC, and X12 (US EDI standards body responsible for HIPAA transactions).
    • Tim Buxton
      • Formal liaison is only ICH. He’s been engaged in cross-SDO activities since 2007. Duplication of effort between fora is the main consideration. Problems to be resolved include different relationships between SDOs all having membership in the JIC. Relationships not clearly worked out, the way a project should be set up not clearly worked out. They are still working out efficiencies. Ballot cycles are not the same, though HL7 has accommodated ISO timelines. Publication cycles are also different. Thirdly, same team work in multiple different formats to slightly different ends with input through ballots only, not before ballot. Strategic objectives can remain the same, but better operations and standards recognition between SDOs to be sufficient for passage between SDOs. John Quinn notes that publication standards between the organizations are a problem, they are recognized and their differences noted, but post-process technical difficulties in changing publication methods, and he recommends talking to Lenel James who is working on this in SCO.
    • Christian Hay
      • Christian describes the efforts of GS1 in the healthcare industry. They have their own processes that are not standardized to the other SDOs. Their purpose in entering JIC is not to make things more complex but to make them simpler. They have Working Groups also working around the globe. One such example of work if you have AIDC auto id data capture, level H is capture of such data. Traceability of supply chain is another important area of activity including electronic product code EPC, with traceability at the item level. Uniform messaging processes are already used for that work, which have applicability to prescription drugs. His task is to raise awareness of what they’re doing, working at the global level, and offering a workshop on GS1. His task also is to explore further the junction points between the organizations. In Austria: GS1, HL7, local ISO, and IHE are all working together, as with Switzerland. May next year next connectathon for IHE Europe.
    • Lisa Spellman
      • Secretary of ISO TC 215, Administrator for US TAG. Former role was with IHE. End users are looking for technology that works. Users don’t want to know the details. Each of our organizations has a role to play, and we seek further how can we do partnerships and collaboration. If it was easy, it would have already been done. Each organization has their own reason and way for their work. She invites those that wish to get involved for TC215 for people to bring expertise in their own areas into TC215. What can we develop that is truly relevant, that would make a difference? Need to examine who our stakeholders are. We want to have both vendors and the clinical side show up and participate.


Comment period

  • Harry Solomon: Participation in the variety of SDOs across the breadth of SDOs – how can a person pay one fee and get access to participate in all the SDOs? Some other areas have country wide collaboratives that do that, notes Keith Boone but it’s an extraordinary challenge.
  • Richard Dixon-Hughes notes that an Australian survey noted that companies were more concerned about cost of involvement and the cost of technical experts rather than membership fees. Cooperation and harmonization at the time JIC was formed was perceived as being critical, where now it seems that it’s not mandatory for survival. Lisa notes that the members should keep pushing to get such things done. Tim notes that it needs to maintain perception as imperative, against increased evaluation of how monies are spent. John notes that SCO is trying to bring some governance into how the SDOs work and make efficient the process of collaboration. Ed Hammond is recommended to discuss from a reference point to when JIC was formed. This forum addresses shortcuts to the governance issues where countries have programs adopting standards compared in other areas where SDOs have no official standing. ISO processes without joint balloting create disparity in version releases for adoption.
  • EU funded project for Semantic Health Net; how well is this known? How well does it fit? Bernd offers that HL7 Europe are aware of it. John notes that Chuck spent a couple days looking into the latest updates from EPSOS. It’s important that such projects be brought into this venue. Bernd adds that it is a sustained project over more than a few years.
  • Bernd asks about the integration of different bodies in one way, to increase the participation by individuals fourfold by integrating those bodies as is done in Germany. While he is not happy necessarily with the integration but integrating by person is not efficient. This is noted with the SAIF effort that some knowledge has already been developed in other areas. Keith notes that he quotes Grahame there’s nothing so annoying as my existing solution to your new set of requirements. First effort of a thesis is a scan of existing work that’s been done in that area of research. He sees that step as missing among experts who believe they already know what they’re doing. Christian adds that such rationale depends on the involvement of those that are experts in such an area being ‘in the room’ to know what the state of the research is due to the volume of information. Human resources are the point of concern – the companies involved don’t know each other; it’s a communication issue.
  • If the research scan is a part of the thesis approach, so should be a communication plan. Institutional memory documentation is part of the problem when what was done and what was considered in the process. The natural response is the assumption that others did not evaluate areas of one’s own concern. Intra-SDO communication strategy to achieve such a goal, would help to synchronize activity across SDOs to shorten cycle time as well as document for posterity to avoid the re-work. Need to document what went into a decision as well as the decision that was made. Keith recommended with the CDA IG Ballot that not just the rule go into the ballot but the rationale behind it.
  • Richard adds that the role of IHE worldwide is significant to the groups now in the JIC, where the IHE does not purport to be an SDO in its own right and what does that model have to import to HL7. He notes that with his appointment as liaison he did not receive a set of responsibilities or an understanding of what the role entails. More formalized communications would be helpful so that after providing a report at this session he doesn’t get cornered repeatedly through the rest of the week on what is going on.
  • John Moehrke notes a problem with the environmental scan is that most SDOs do not make themselves searchable. He can’t tell what HL7 is doing or ISO is doing. He doesn’t know what the titles are of what is available. Lisa notes that it might be a technology problem. Others disagree; that it is a process problem.

Austin notes that there is a list server for this group, please join.

Christian thanks Austin for organizing this new format. He feels the best way to communicate is to be there; the HL7 website is great but searching is difficult. Lisa agrees that the process problem is a way to start addressing the communication and thanks everyone for staying this afternoon to attend the session. Tim notes the problems faced across SDOs are similar across projects in orgs; documentation and communication to stakeholder. Keith adds that RSS feeds are available from HL7 as well as ASTM that he can retweet so that an automatic flow of information can be made available and would offer an uber-feed if ISO were to create one. Scott notes that if you have ideas please bring them to the ORC.

Heather Grain notes that SKMT was developed with the ability to do what Keith is discussing as a repository of work in process.

Austin thanks the panelists. Adjourn 5:01 PM.